After the my personal article on the children regarding Llywelyn Fawr and Joanna and responses they gotten, I checked once more from the genealogical pages about Gwladus Ddu. While it’s genuine, as several genealogists point out, you to regarding absence of distinct facts one way or another, brand new term of mommy regarding Gwladus Ddu need certainly to are nevertheless ‘unknown’, I found you don’t need to change my end one sexy Santos women their own mother try Joanna rather than Tangwystyl.
She left not a problem from the Alexander II
One next origin dedicated to its children ‘s the pursuing the abstract from the ‘Kings and you will Queens away from Britain’ an authoritative publication, compiled by Oxford University Force, web page 106:
‘Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth, b.1173, young man out of Iorwerth Drwyndwn (‘Flatnose’) and you may Marared, daughter off Madog ap Maredudd; acc. eastern Gwynedd 1195; married Joan, illegitimate daughter off King John, 1205; issue: Gruffudd (illegitimate), Dafydd, Gwenllian, Helen, Gwladus, Margaret, Susanna; passed away eleven April 1240; buried: Aberconwy.’
First, let me pay tribute so you’re able to Sharon. Their unique browse having ‘HBD’, ‘Drops the latest Shadow’ and you may ‘The Reckoning’, carried out up until the introduction of the web, try it is an excellent. Very nearly that which you she’s got written in you to definitely trilogy really stands personal test now.
To prove that it’s not just me one believes thus, allow me to quote that genealogist who’s an excellent partner regarding Sharon: “I’m really attracted to Sharon Kay Penman’s books. As they aren’t purely biographical, Personally i think more comfortable depending on their own try to ‘complete the latest blanks’ (because of the quantity of research she needless to say set in her books), than in actually pointing out certain genealogical source that we came across the inside my lookup (I’m sure we-all encounter source that way). In order to anyone who has not even read their own really works, I recommend it extremely very, especially if you would like to get a getting for what lifetime is actually particularly 800 years ago.”
Following inquiries posed by Beth, Suzanne and you can Sandy particularly, I begin researching the latest identity out-of Joanna’s mommy (referred to hereafter, to own ease of reference because ‘Clemence’ perhaps not ‘Clementia’) thanks to an affair to your so you’re able to-be-queen John. Just after powering upwards many blind alleys, mainly using looking to reconcile the chronology of one to your most other, I have paid about what employs. I do not say that the things i wrote was definitive in every shape or mode, together with facts are that we will most likely not be sure out of their own identity.
(a) The brand new illegitimate Joanna, daughter of “Clemence,” was undoubtedly created away from wedlock –– as is proved of the Honorius III’s decree declaring their legitimate in April 1226, regardless if versus prejudice towards the queen or arena of The united kingdomt (i.elizabeth., offering her no claim to that throne). New decree, which has been transcribed on brand new, unpublished Check in off Honorius III (Reg. Vat. thirteen, fol. 122 ), claims inter alia that “Johannes Rex anglie solutus te genuerit de- soluta,” and that, I’m informed, means “King John away from The united kingdomt, whenever solitary , fathered you by an unmarried lady.”
This became a lot more advanced than simply I would personally keeps thought you’ll!
This means Joanna might have already been created no later on than 1189 when John married Isabella regarding Gloucester. Her mom, “Clemence” are probably French otherwise Norman, given that research throughout the patent goes out of John’s leadership suggests that Joan is actually delivered away from Normandy so you can England within the December 1203, to set up to have relationships so you can Llywelyn ab Iorwerth (pick below). Joanna died for the Feb 1237.
(b) John’s legitimate daughter Joan, because of the Isabella from Angouleme (hitched so you can John in the 1200 at decades several!), was given birth to during the Gloucester on the 22 July 1210 (understand the Tewkesbury Annals about Goes Show, vol. 36.i, p. 59; the Worcester Annals, ibid., vol. thirty six.iv, p. 399; and the Rotuli Litterarum Patencium for John’s Rule, pp. 124, 143). This is basically the Joan who next partnered Alexander II regarding Scotland and you can she died into the 1238, certain months once Joanna (this could make up a few of the dilemma apparent within several female).